I agree too automatic shutdown of the engine is very bad idea.

I hope mitsubishi will get back on their gdi engines. those engines idle at very low rpm(650-700), making then more economical in city' s. Those engines do use 15% less fuel then other cars of that time(late ninetees). Also the direct injection gives a lot of torgue at low rpm' s making it very nice to drive with. Even today, those cars are still more economical then new cars of same type and size. For example, Toyota prius is only more ecomomical because of its ugly super streamlined design and narrow extra-low-resistence-tyres, the engine/hybrid system itself is worse then the 1.8 gdi engine of mitsubishi.

The downside was, the gdi engines need high quality petrol, which made them inpopular in Netherlands due to crazy tax systems on anything which has something to do with cars.

So, all those fancy systems are just a complete waste of money, its all about the engine.
hybrid-systems, automatic shutdowns, feedback systems, are a complete waste of resources and are very bad to the enviroment due to very dirty production. Often it is said this is countered with reclycling. But a normal car gets also for 95+% recycled too..


But ontopic:-) Some agree automatic shut off in lfs should stay in lfs, some don' t care at all, and some people agree with me.
It will be up to scawen i think

Quote from Napalm Candy :

Hi,

I want to make a suggestion, that i think it is very important. When drive a real car, and turn wheel the feel is more hard, but if turn too much, the feel is very soft.

In LFS, the strong of wheel in a turn, is EVER the same. It is a problem for me becouse i don't feel when i'm in understeering

Sorry my bad english

I noticed this effect irl when understeering with my previous car which had good standard road tyres, My current car also this effect but less severe, but this car is equipped with very high performance road tyres. The downside is slightly less ride-comfort.

So i think the difference is the tyres, from personal experience, high performance tyres are better on the limit and thus steering does not get suddenly a light feeling with slight understeer, but just a small drop off which tells you, you are getting very near to the limit. On standard tyres it is more likely to happen that the steering gets very light when understeering. Its all about the tyres..

I don't think anybody should be able to choose driverside.

Just for every car fix it for everybody! Otherwise some people would have an advantage because they choose something when they first got lfs and others will always have disavantage. Also, everybody will choose they same option which is best for te track.


I think there are two possibilitys:
Leave it as it is
or
remove drivesside option from lfs, each car locked in position. For example, rac is more european-> left side, lx6 more brittish -> right side, gtr' s all left etc.

Quote from Stang70Fastback :

Well you have to remember that you don't usually hear normal street cars driving at full throttle and revving to 6000+ RPM. That is usually a bit louder. Not to mention that the road cars in LFS would likely be cars that would have a couple small tweaks made to them, which would probably include a high flow-rate exhaust which would surely be a bit louder than pure stock...

A lot of tracks have very strict regulations about how loud a car is allowed to be. The performance of the road cars in lfs do not require special exhausts. So I assume they are quiet irl too.

Interesting posts about:
Save the enviroment, don' t be stationary so long, we' ve got laws tc.

It does not happen irl, so it should also not happen in a simulation.

The point about annoying if people are idle in pits, with engine cut there are still idle in pits. Whats the difference? Get a live !

The engine cut itself is not annoying or a problem, it just feels wrong.

Quote from AndroidXP :

That's a performance optimization feature, so that cars idling on the side of the track can be removed from the physics loop, speeding up the calculations for everybody else.

Well it is not realistic. Also as soon as everybody is back on track(eg race-restart), people with a slow computer will still have a performance problem

I never did notice any difference in frame-rate with many racers online except when many cars are visible on screen.

When idle and in neutral a normal road-car engine will never stall unless its broken or runs out of fuel or something is very wrong with the enviroment(like in the water/sinking)

I think spontanous engine stalls on road cars should be removed. It just doesn't happen irl. Normal engines run fine at idle rpm or stall very quickly or will be running irregular rpm at being idle.

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Wed 19 Mar 2008, 22:16. Reason : removed 'have' from sentence

Quote from dougie-lampkin :

Doesn't diesel get more torque? That's why tractors, trucks and that sort of thing are diesel, not for speed, but for low-down torque...

Petrol is better for HP I know, that's why supercars and such are petrol.

IDK...That's the way I looked at it

Replace the engine of a tractor with samed size petrol engine designed for torgue at low rpm. You will be amazed how simular the performance will be.

But diesel-engines are cheaper to run (better fuel economy and fuel is cheaper) and diesel fuel is saver to use, because diesel-engines and fuel tanks are less likely to catch fire due to accidents or failures of the engine.

Overal, petrol is better in all areas if you only care about performance. But diesel has other advantages.

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Sun 16 Mar 2008, 13:34. Reason : typo

Quote from dougie-lampkin :

It revs fairly low, compared to the RB4 and XRT though...maybe not diesel-low, but still quite low...E-85 perhaps? XD

Put a low-pressure turbo on any normal petrol engine(with right adjustments) and you will be amazed how mucht torgue the engine will produce.

Diesels are always slower then petrol, but people compare turbocharged diesels engines to non-turbo petrol engines.

With equal quality turbochargers, diesels are much slower than petrol engines. Petrol gets more torgue and a lot more HP.

Ontopic: balancing a car-class with totally different type of cars is futile.

@gezmoor

Something is not correct.
According to what you tell, a texture of 256x256 will look very small on my screen when being close. What really happens, it gets blown up making it a blurry image.

There is only one possible solution to this problem, higher resolution/bigger textures.

I have a 27 inch monitor, and i do notice blurry textures everytime a car is nearby. 1024x1024 would already be a lot better. But that costs money

It is true, smal monitors need small textures..
But 19 inch?? small for today's standards.

"Pit to car (one way only) radios are very expensive."

Why? anybody who has some experience with electronics can built it himself.
Small legal simple devices area available for about €120. Radio receivers and transmitters of whatever type for short distances are cheap and small.

So why is it expensive for racing?


Datacollection will be more expensive, the software, all the sensors.. I can understand that, but it is not high-tech anymore. The analysis-software however, will be as high-tech as the team budget can afford

Quote from GloryJ :

I haven't read everything but at least one person wants 4096x4096 skins. I think you only need such a high resolution for big render images. I don't really see a difference between 2048x2048 and 4096x4096 ingame

>> 4096x4096 skin file <<

Nice, it doens't fit on my 27 inch montior, have to scroll around.
2048x2048 should be enough for everybody

Nice discussion with some people claiming rather odd behaviour.

Is it too hard to understand what happens is you change gear down to early in mid corner while driving on te limit?
Well the tyres are on the limit, so they can' t handle the extra load from engine braking and car starts to slide.

On full braking, if rear wheels get locked by the engine AND the brakes, you indeed spin out. Its called gear-change error or wrong brake-balance. Changing gear in mid corner on rwd is dangerous, because only the rear-wheels are slowed down, same effect as mildly using the handbrake. But total lock? No unless the car is not moving

F1 Engine' s have adjustable engine-braking, in fact it is in lfs too. The motormanagement makes sure there is just enough fuel burned to counter the engine-brake effect or reduces it exactly as the driver wishes.

One note: my real car can certainly brake better then lousy 1g

Damage - felt/heard - No system gauges irl which report it

Tyre temps - felt, and measured in the pitlane - Hej! these things are not expensive irl, so i think it is not urealistic to have it

Clutch temp - felt (when it's too late usually) Clutch on some cars are made of paper in lfs. But anyway irl getting a tempature reading is possible, but irl not very usefull. Its fine to have it in lfs i think.

Map - memorised weeks if not months in advance - GPS systems? I agree irl no driver ever had such a system to see graphicly how much the competion is ahead or behind. For now it is more a safety system to check for upcoming traffic after a spin or when exiting pits.


ontopic:
engine damage indicator: thats ok: Just as in irl a light that goes on if anything is not within specified parameters. But not more than that.

One other thing, engine is more likely to blow-up/destroyed when over revved. Slow powerloss due overrevving is less likely on racing-engines.

Quote from CSU1 :

Fact is LFS is a racing simulator, if I where a dev I'd do the same and try to steer my customers (pardon the pun:razz to use the appropriate tools for the job ie. a steering wheel, as it's the only way of driving the sim at its best....I suppose it's kinda like Boeing selling their new craft fitted with an Atari 2600 console and joystick instead of a cockpit....it just does'nt get the job done.

F-16' s, F-22's etc are doing very well with (seriously improved version of atari) joysticks. In fact a joystick and a seperate simple joystick for throttle is the best combination for flying in a airplane.

But for cars it is less suitable

Quote from l3aDb0y :

Yea I knew what you were saying, thats why I said give gamepad its own category. I apologize for forgetting that LFS recognizes axis and wheel users would be able to select this gamepad option of it were implemented.

I know LFS is meant for a wheel, but not everyone can get one so easily. Hopefully the devs figure out a way to do something about gamepad sensitivity problem without affecting wheel users. I exerpimented again with xbcd utility and deadzones for xbox 360 gamepad, got the best results I have ever gotten so far, but it still has a few problems, delayed steering being one of them due to steer smooth. New deadzone and ranges I am trying are working good for steering, but hard to drift smoothly and sticking to a line. Also car has trouble staying straight even with the deadzone due to steer smooth, any less steer smooth and the steering would go back to being super fast.

What are you talking about?? It is perfectly possible to be very fast with gamepad as long as it has dual analogue sticks on it. Any aids would ruin it. I did myself wr times on some trackes with a gamepad.

For the steering senstitivity, take a good look at the options lfs already has to offer.

Dirfting is an art, not racing, since patch Y you can drift even the f08 around with gamepad. And i don' t like drifting, because it slows me down And i am not good at drifting, much better at getting out of a drift.

Also there are different qualitys of gamepades, one of the best are thrustmaster dual powers, but they are no longer produced.
Maybe a gamepad of the xbox 360 is not as good as you might expected or not suitable to be used in a racing simulation.

Gamepad support like dual ps2 controllers are very good with lfs.
Indeed, lfs cannot know what is connected. It just has several axes. Also forcefeedback is indeed usefull on gamepad, but not as good as on steering wheels.

Steering-wheels are more precise, which is a advantage in slower cars. But with formula cars, the ps2-like controllers give the ability to correct slides and spins very, very, very fast making it very equal to good steering wheels.

That' s why i strongly disagree to add driving aids to ps2-like(dual analogue mini sticks with force feedback) controllers. It would make it unfair for the people who drive with a steering-wheel. To be more precise NO i don' t want to have any help with steering! Ban the TC too on the BF1!

If you happen to have a digital(buttons only) gamepad, destroy it and get a decent dual analogue one, with force feedback :-)

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Mon 3 Mar 2008, 21:56.

Quote from petercollins :

I prefer the new version as does the majority of F1 drivers according to Brundle. The old one was boring and dangerous - if those words can be used in the same sentence

Brundle?? That failed F1 driver? one persons opinion. He has the right to have one. But i rather here the opionion of your self, not telling somebody else thinks it was boring.
Rather strange to call it boring, high speed part, and slow stadium section where the drivers sometimes could hear the public screaming. The stadium part they had to get through with only very little downforce.

In the days of grand prix one and two, hockenheim was a very populair track in the game/simulation and also very populair with the tv-viewers of F1 irl. But Ecclestone wanted more money money His left eye has $$$ in it and his right eye has €€€ in it.

Last edited by Bluebird B B, Mon 3 Mar 2008, 21:42. Reason : English stays difficicult:-)

I would like toe see 1024x1024 would be the low-resolution skins.

2048 and 4096 are indeed very high resolutions, it is hard to see the difference on small monitors and probably only usefull for people with 30 inch monitors.

My own system has no problem at all with high resolutions, but i don' t like to pay extra to get up-do-date graphics. Maybe high resoultion will be reserved for s3 and stay an option in s2?

Quote from marzman :

Strange. Could be a bug in the track, maybe the bumps are too strong if you drive over them at that point/speed.

Is it your replay? Default AI setup?

Just the first random failure ever in lfs

Quote from Hyperactive :

Which was utterly boring flatout boredomness... A bit like blackwood but with 2 long straights...

Nah,
three straitghs with two very different chicanes in it. After the forest part very nice cornering section where you have to drive your high speed-setup at low speeds. In formula-cars it is, eh was, very nice and challancing.

Hockenheim was a rather long track, everything is in it. Everyone loved it, but sponsors complained about it took so long after finish to get the drivers back, not enough possibilitys of advertisements etc. And ecclestone, the man who has dollars-signs really in his eyes, only cares about money. So fia demanded an shorter track.

Quote from Stefani24 :

i'd not choose bathurst, nurburgring or isle of man or a track that has such big elevation changes.
I'd choose old hockenheim, easily too awesome to race trough this narrow woods

I agree, i consider hockenheim ruined since it became a standard boring track. Bah and that just for commercial reasons.

Would be nice to have the real hockenheim track in lfs like it was in 199x

With the new ati drivers the problem of black screen seem to have gone away. But i am not sure it are the drivers or just luck.

Skin stealing?

You make something nice for everyone to see and is shared for everyone freely to use, yet you want to tell someone else not to use it.

I don' t want you to ever use linux. Sounds stupid? I think so